It would be nice that the posters wouldn't bringi in political overtones,
as far as, liberal, non-liberal, into this particuliar discussion. It causes people to attack one another
and things to get heated, and off this important question.
I agree with Blu, keep the focus on where it needs to be.

Quote:
".......where even Rumsfield cannot remember if he ordered a hit on Pat Tillman and corruption flows from the WH down, one wonders what the defination of "justice" has come to be!"

Sorry, but I was merely responding to what I perceived to be politically biased comments...if I misunderstood, I apologize. I joked about Tora Bora because it has nothing to do with the discussion on this thread....much the same as the above quote. Can you tell me the purpose behind the Rumsfeld comment, if not political? I agree with you and Blu...keep the focus where it belongs.

BTW.....I am out of this discussion. I said what I wanted to say. I will not apologize again or explain any further.
Ciao.

Hi Mia...good posts! In fact, excellent. I wish sometimes I could get mad enough to tell some of these people off.

They're always ready to jump on some posters FOR STUPID THINGS!! But yet, they can spout off all their crap.

Keep up the good work.

Connie

Right on Mia!

Which "crapper" are you referring to, Connie?

This whole thread took a left turn somewhere, but I'd be interested in who is jumping posters for STUPID THINGS and then spewing ...excuse me, spouting, crap.

Interesting thread, though....from the White House to St. John...to Halliburton to world hunger. Wow. And just four pages. Amazing when you think the KC thread generated so much more, and had so much less to do with life in the VI.

CShell said "There are thousands of murders daily and I have no idea of how many go unsolved..."

The States average 62% solvency for murders, and the VI sits at about 25% solvency.

I am glad that the murder rate in the islands seems to be about a quarter less than last year, so far.

As I have stated before, through my personal experience, a very large part of the police department in STT and STJ (only been to STX once, I cannot speak for that island) are at least inept, if not corrupt.

Maybe this horrible murder will do at least a little good, bringing more federal eyes upon the island...

Hey Becky!!

I knew you'd jump on me...just knew it, but i will not entertain you with any answers.

Just like a few other posters here, I'm done with this thread...took a mean turn a long time ago.

Connie, I PM'd you - I don't know what your issue is, I haven't said a WORD about anything here...so I'm certainly not jumping you....so why'd you jump back?

P.S. Okey-dokey - no more PMs, per your request. Sniff.

I want to thank the administration of this forum for their integrity in allowing this post to remain. My initial concern about "truth in forums" was that Trip Advisor had deleted many posts similar to this thread. That raised my hackles because people depend on the forums to give them an honest view, plusses and minuses, good and bad, about a destination. If Trip Advisor is deleting anything they want, which might well be everything negative, how much credibility can they have in advising anybody about a destination? I felt betrayed. But then maybe I am just naive in this electronic age.

I raised a son on St. John. He frequented the Front Yard after work, after he was grown and before he left the island three years ago. (He is still an excellent pool player because of his tutelage there!) So the murder of Jamie Cockayne hit close to home for me. To be perfectly blunt, it really ticked me off. But then, I was ticked off last year when the police couldn't solve David Geiger's murder. And when the "kids" who beat the guy with the shovel were not charged. And when robberies at certain places are never investigated. There are people who feel like they are above the law. The reasons for that are obvious to anybody who lives in the islands. We all need the police to keep us safe and I pray every day that by some miracle they will start to do so. Paradoxically, we all need the tourists to keep the economy turning, so opening up this subject is a double-edged sword, and we all know it..

I do give full my full appreciation and thanks to the administration (Islander) for allowing this subject to air. Sunshine is a good thing.

Thank you all for your forbearance. Now you can make a more informed choice about boycotting Trip Advisor or vacationing on St. John - at the very least, you are more informed now than before this thread started.

Going to do some reading about Rumsfeld.

- Sunburn

Accountability in government, law enforcement, and for citizens, only works if it's enforced.
Thank you, Islander, for allowing this to air and have life here. I like to think the community of Earth has no
boundaries.
No one here would like to see St. John suffer but, it will if these issues are not faced. No matter
how difficult.
Stay strong and do what is right. You have more people behind you than you know.

In case you missed this valuable link, I'm posting it again:

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/index.htm

Remarkable how that guy got so many peoples' numbers.

Sorry Weary,
Just don't feel like laughing this time.

It's really not humor. It's exposing the weird personal games that different people play on forums.

Sunburn
It is still there. But others were removed. Like every forum where you have to have a sign in you have rules to follow even this board has rules about posting as well as Trip Advisor. Please see below. I am not knocking you.

-:- Message from TripAdvisor staff -:-

Tragic circumstances occur in every city of the world, including crimes that involve both tourists and locals. We close or remove topics that include graphic descriptions of violent crimes or accidental death and injury; the subject matter does not conform to our rules regarding family-friendly topics and our requirement that forum threads be travel-related discussions.

To review the TripAdvisor Forums Posting Guidelines, please follow this link: http://www.tripadvisor.com/pages/forums_posting_guidelines.html

We remove posts that do not follow our posting guidelines, and we reserve the right to remove any post for any reason.

There seems to be broad agreement that the police force in STJ is inept, corrupt and more concerned with whitewashing the criminal activity of locals than in keeping the island safe for tourism.

So why is this treated as some sort of quaint "feature" of the island? An earlier poster noted that the island is more "Caribbean" in nature even though it is part of the US. That's all well and good. Play your Bob Marley tunes, drink lots of rum and walk around in flip flops. But when a young man is murdered and the police are either incapable or uninterested in identifying and apprehending the perp, it ceases to be a situation to be regarded with a nod and a wink. I, for one, hope the federal government descends on the island like the marines landing on the beach and solves this crime while simultaneously exposing a situation that has been allowed to exist for far too long.

We are all equal under the law. That means that locals are not entitled to preferential treatment. So if the local cops can't get it done because they're too close to the situation, move over and let some real law enforcement people handle things.

I said I was dropping out - but I have to respond to say that NowWhat, I can under sand the spirit of what you are saying, but your facts are kind of off-base.....and maybe that explains why there is so much confusion with people about why things are allowed to be the way they are.

1. The USVI is NOT part of the US. It is simply OWNED by the US.

2. You say it is "more Caribbean in nature". Of course it is!
It is definitely, without a doubt, Caribbean....just like any other Caribbean island. In some respects, I see it as being MORE Caribbean than some other islands in the chain. There are many residents in the USVI who are not originally from the USVI - they have come from other, non US-owned islands, both legally and illegally. Out of all the "locals" I know (people who grew up on STT or STJ), not one of them was born there...with the exception of their children. My friend from Tortola is married to a woman from St Barts, my friend from St Kitts is married to a woman from Dominica (not to be confused with Dominican Republic)...and so on....

3. The USVI has it's own government, not the gov't of the US. Theirs is called "The Insular Government of the US Virgin Islands". An insular area is United States territory that is neither a part of the fifty states, nor a part of the District of Columbia, the nation's federal district.

Because those insular areas that are inhabited are unincorporated territories, their native-born inhabitants are not constitutionally entitled to United States citizenship under the Citizenship Clause. However, Congress has extended citizenship rights to all inhabited territories with the exception of American Samoa, and these citizens may vote and run for office in any U.S. jurisdiction in which they are resident - but they may NOT participate in US mainland elections - they may not participate in the Presidential election and do not elect voting members of US Congress- and their collective citizenship via Congress, may be holistically revoked.

There is no Constitution over the USVI. They are free to form their own constitution, but have not done so.

They do NOT pay taxes to the USA...BUT, they are afforded the USA's programs, for which most USA residents DO pay taxes. So, they get to double dip! The USVI should be rolling in $$$$$.

Do you see, now, how very non-US the USVI really is. I think visitors are VERY misled with the term United States Virgin Islands.

4. As far as the US landing on the beaches like marines and taking over on this issue - no way, no how. I'm betting that will not happen - not even close.....for so many reasons. From time to time, there is a probe.....some kind of investigation into corruption (See US Department of Justice files on the VIPD). But, other than that, the USA will not meddle. The USA knows what goes on down there....very well. Tourists making noise will not cause a stink. The residents of the USVI have to make the noise - in great numbers. But why would they? Do they trust the USA enough to make trouble for themselves? I think not. The USA has seen worse than this down there, and has pretty much ignored it.
I dare say that I don't think the USA cares that much. What's the worst thing that will happen? USA residents will stop visiting the USVI as their vacation destination - and they'll go someplace else (maybe someplace lucrative for the USA). There are no taxes coming into the USA from the USVI anyway - so no loss there!

5. Bob Marley is Jamaican - reggae music. The USVI's music is Calypso - very different music. 😉

Just wanted to try to help frame this correctly. This is not the US we're talking about.

I appreciate your clarifications. I just want to add one of my own. I did not say that it was "more Carribean" down there...I was repeating a comment form an earlier post and suggesting that it should not make a difference with regard to how police should investigate a murder.

And for the record, Calypso may be the cultural norm with regard to USVI music, but find me a bar in STJ that does not have Bob Marley wailing from the jukebox.

Quelbe.

Good post Bluwater. I agree with what you said. What everyone needs to understand is that the population of the USVI is approx. 105,000 total. It isn't 5 million or any million. It is barely 6 figures. You can't even compare that to small town USA, because all small town USA cities have county help, state help, and federal help. USVI has itself, itself, and itself. That all boils down to the police department. What do the USVI police dept get? They get attitude from mainlanders telling them how to do their job, they get slandered, they get overworked and underpaid, they get witnesses and friends of the victims leaking information on the case to the public via message boards, etc. They have many people working against them. They do not have have a proper lab to work case evidence. People are not willing to donate money nor time to help the police department, but you do have multitudes of people unrelated to the case willing to say how corrupt they are and how terrible they are handling the case. I do know some officers on St. Thomas and they are good people and they do try to make their communities better even with all the challenges they face. If you really care about the cases they are working on, then help out. Do volunteer work, start a volunteer group, get involved in ways that help the community rather than just sit there and criticize what others do. Yes, the police department has a long way to go to be able to get more arrests and convictions. I have had my own issues with the local police department, but I have to say that they were very receptive to my questions, they told me exactly what I could expect and what I needed to do to follow up on the report. Most people don't even go pick up the police report after a crime has been committed against them. Anyway, since you all got to put your opinions out there, so do I.

If you want to prevent crime from happening to you, the best thing you can do is bring your common sense. Leave your 'the good ole USA does things better' attitude and just try to understand the culture and how things work on island. Murders do get solved, the USVI does work with the FBI and other agencies, they have much more work to do to make combat crime, and many people are working towards change. As far as this case goes, help or get out of the way.

Teresa