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My wife and I just returned from getting married on Magen's Bay last week and after getting quite a bit of good info from this board I thought I'd give a short report of our trip.
We stayed at the Marriott using reward points and with an upgrade we were given a nice 2 story suite with two bathrooms on the top floor. On a scale of 1-10 I'd give the Marriott a 7. It was a nice hotel, but I wouldn't say it was a great, or world-class hotel. Had we payed the going rate (we were told it would be around $700 a night) we would have been disappointed, since we used rewards points it was not a big deal. The food at the hotel is nothing special and is pricey. The best spot was Coco Joe's which has some more variety. Havana Blue on the other hand, which is independently operated, was excellent. The service, food, drinks, etc. were all great, the staff were friendly and helped us out with our plans and the view was perfect. It isn't cheap, but it is worth it. Lotus Lounge in Red Hook, also owned by the same people as Havana Blue, was very good also. It isn't sushi like you'd get at a sushi place but more of a hybrid of styles.
We rented a car from Hertz and got a tiny Honda which was great for getting around the island and parking. A little sluggish on some of the hills but otherwise a good move. It made it much easier to get around, plan our days, and in the end was cheaper than using cabs.
Neither of us had been to St. Thomas before, and to be honest, we weren't overly impressed with the island. The beaches are incredible, some of the best I've been to, but the island itself reminded be of Jamaica - dirty. STT was also more "touristy" than we were expecting and not as relaxing. On the other hand - St. John was beautiful and much more what we were expecting. One hour on that island and we felt a 100x more relaxed. If we were to return, we would definitely stay on St. John instead. We did Trunk and Cinnamon bays and both were gorgeous, the snorkeling was great especially considering the amount of rain and wind there was a few days earlier. Saw a sea turtle, a few barracudas, and a ton of other tropical fish.
We waited for a day when only 1 cruise ship was in port to go shopping and it was a lot better than when there was a bunch of ships like the day we arrived. Avoid downtown when the ships are in, the traffic and congestion is insane, and this is from someone in southern California who deals with traffic everyday.
I was surprised by the attitude of the locals, which was cool to say the least. There definitely is an underlying tension between the locals and tourists. Not so much that it makes you feel unsafe or to ruin anything, but it is just a vibe I got. In my trips to Mexico I always try to talk in Spanish and meet locals, I even had a bartender take me to the airport because we had become friends while staying in Manzanillo, but in St. Thomas it was hard to engage a local in a conversation for any length of time.
There is a lot more, but I'm already rambling. All in all, a great trip, we learned a lot and would like to go back and give St. John a try for a week.
I'd don't know about anybody else, but i'd like to hear alot more! Love reading trip reports.
When you say that you weren't overly impressed with STT...I have some questions.
How long were you there?
Where did you travel too on STT.
How much time did you spend on STJ?
Also, what and where did you see the dirty places?
You didn't mention any of the beaches on St. Thomas, nor did you mention anywhere you ventured out onto in STT. What about where you ate, besides the Marriott.
I'll be the first to admit that St. John is very very pretty, but St. Thomas is wonderful and has alot to offer.
I don't want to slam you, but I have nothing but good things to say about how we interacted with the locals. To me, STT cannot compare to Jamaica, where they're known for their "compounds" , where you can't go out at night without being nervous and scared and where some of the locals wanted to trade our 10 year old daughter for their car.
-How long were you there?
We were there for 8 days. On STT we went to Downtown, Magen's, Sapphire, Red Hook, Blackbeard's/99 Steps area, Morningstar, and Bolongo (had lunch at Iggie's). We only got to spend one day on STJ. Unfortunately the weather wasn't very cooperative and there was rain 4 of the 8 days we were there with a lot of wind which really made snorkeling not an option.
-Also, what and where did you see the dirty places?
Pretty much everywhere off the main roads. Lots of trash, broken down cars, tires, abandoned buildings, etc. I guess I just expected it to be more like the Caymans because it is such a high-end island. With the prices you pay to stay there I thought it would be a bit nicer. Instead it was more Mexico-esque, if that makes sense. But also - like I said, the beaches were incredible. Once you got to the beach, the sand was the softest I've ever felt, the water was perfect, everything was perfect, but the drive to the beach leaves a little to be desired, IMO.
-What about where you ate, besides the Marriott.
We ate at Iggie's, Cuzzin's, Lotus, Shipwreck Tavern and snack bars at the beaches. I enjoyed Iggie's, thought Cuzzin's was good, but couldn't help feeling it was a bit of a tourist place for the cruise ship passengers, Shipwreck was a waste. We both really wanted Caribbean food or something different than what we could get at home.
-I'll be the first to admit that St. John is very very pretty, but St. Thomas is wonderful and has alot to offer.
I think you are right, but I also think the two are very different, at least from my limited exposure. STT seems to cater more to American's who want all the same creature comforts of home with nice beaches. This is great if that is what you are looking for, but it does lead to crowds, traffic, lines, etc. All things I want to avoid when I am on vacation. STJ seems to be more geared towards people who would rather sit in a hammock between two palm trees on an empty beach swaying in the breeze. It just depends on what you are looking to do.
-I don't want to slam you, but I have nothing but good things to say about how we interacted with the locals.
Really? I find that interesting. Most of the people we talked to admitted the locals are "stand-offish" and hard to deal with. I wouldn't say they were outright rude or anything, but they were not friendly either. Of course some were great, some actually were outright rude, and most were somewhere in between. It wasn't as bad as Jamaica, I probably shouldn't have linked the two, but I just got some of that same vibe. Similar to parts of Hawaii when dealing with locals. I guess I'm just used to Mexico where the locals have always (at least to me) seemed extremely friendly.
Bryan,
Have to agree with you on all points. We ate at many of the same places you did in STT in Dec. and enjoyed them. Due to money constraints we stayed on STT. We ferried to STJ 4 out of 6 days because the beaches in STT were packed with cruise people and just not as nice. Connie, STT is just not for everyone. I heard people rave about Duffy's so we stopped for a drink but quickly decided we didn't come all this way to sit in a parking lot! I am sure there are people who would not care for the slow pace & limited hotels/villas on the water of STJ. I have to say the road side trash/dumpsters/abandoned cars in STT was sad.
Bryan, hope you do get to STJ for a week. You went to the most popular beaches in STJ, wait to you see some of the more remote beaches. Awesome.
For a honeymoon trip for 7 days, what are some nice, not so crowded beaches in St. Thomas and St. John? We will have a car and are staying at the Marriott. How many days should we go to St. John or can you see it all in one day? How do you get the ferry over to St. John or should we take the car ferry?
Thanks,
Jeff
IMO - The nicest, most relaxed beach on STT is at Secret Harbour on the East End.
As far as STJ, if you want to visit some of the best, more secluded beaches, taking you car over (if permitted by the rental company) is a must! If you don't mind a nice little hike, you have to see Honeymoon (appropriately enough!) and Salomon!! - Pack a small cooler with you favorite beverage for these!
Otherwise Hawksnest, Cinnamon, Francis Bay....oh there are so many...you'll find 1 day is NOT enough.
This may help for locations, descriptions, pictures and directions...... http://www.stjohnbeachguide.com/Beaches.htm
Bryan ... I agree with everything you have said, sad but true, St Thomas is not the place it was 20 years ago, when I went there yearly! We now stay only on St John, we work the Starwood points for free nights at the Westin or rent a private villa with friends. There is no comparison on the St Thomas versus St John beaches, St John has all of the Caribbean beat for best snorkeling from beaches, most uncrowded beaches etc etc. Bryan you went to 2 of the most popular beaches in St John there are many other better beaches you havent seen yet. Restaurants are also better in St John!
Blackteeshirts ... We met some people in January that stayed in St Thomas and came to St John everyday by the ferry. The hotel rates were so much cheaper in St Thomas, that it was worth it for them to take the ferry everyday.
Salt Pond Bay, Maho, Openheimer and Gibney, Francis, Honeymoon are all some of my favorite beaches.
On St John if you greet shopkeepers, hotel workers, locals etc with a Good Day Mam or sir, and a nice smile, you will be treated well by most. There is always the exception and you will find that anywhere you go, nationally or internationally!
I can only imagine what the other beaches on STJ are like! Trunk and Cinnamon worked well for us since my wife is pregnant and she isn't overly comfortable in the water, but if we do make it back we are definitely going to go more off the beaten path.
It's funny, because when we visited, we ended up skipping all of the "popular" beaches and just went to quieter ones. So I told my husband when we go back, we're going to hit the popular ones this time. LOL
cocosmom...wanted to let you know that my post back to bryan meant no disrespect. I just thought his trip report left out alot of information, that at least i was interested in. Of course, anybody can post anykind of trip report they want...i was just curious.
Bryan: Congrats and best wishes for a long and happy marriage. I had to chuckle at your report. I live on St Thomas and whenever I go to St John, I feel I am back in America. Most of the stores and restaurants are owned and operated by people who have lived there maybe 2 or 3 years. St John also is largely pastoral due to the National Park.
Cuzzin's does get cruise ship passengers, but they have a strong local following. Lots of people say they want local food, but they order cheese burgers! 😉
BryanH,
Thanx for the trip report. First, I would like to say that you only got a teensy taste fo what it is like staying here! You could have a whole different experiance by staying in a villa or some other spot.
As for the garbage, yes, we have those people who have no respect for thier island, I am sad to say. That is why when I go for my walks, I take a garbage bag along and p/u trash! Wish more of us would do that! Yes, one person can make a differance!
Because I am a wedding coordinator, I often pick up people from the cruise ships for thier weddings....By the way, how was your wedding? Congradulations!.....when I talk with these people they often compare STT to St. Maarten. STT has by far won the vote for cleanliness as compared to St. Maarten!!!! I do feel happy to know that the govt. here constantly has workers out on the roads clearing the bush and picking up the garbage. We do try, I promise you!
I am sorry you didn't have a more positive experiance while you were here. I love living here so much and of course I think the majority of us do care about our little piece of paradise!
BryanH: I have to echo what the residents on this forum have said where your trip report was concerned. Of course there were so many options you might have had both insofar as accomodations and places to go, trips to take but of course when you're here for just eight days and it's a "first" for you, obviously your experience is perforce going to be a bit limited (and that's certaily not meant to sound condescending by any means!)
Of course, as sebasco says, STT isn't what it was 20 years ago. My first memories of the original Marriott Frenchman's Reef and Morningstar are so far removed from what it is today. There were no villas there, the beach was gorgeous and the end of the Morningstar Beach was a favourite Sunday afternoon hang-out where volleyball was enjoyed and us young ladies went topless with aplomb. 20 years makes a whole lot of difference in so many areas (I don't go topless any more anywhere!!!) but there are still some local spots which have defied "progress" and continue to do what they've done for years.
I'm sorry that you found the island "dirty." Of note perhaps is that you came here during what was an incredibly dry period. "Dry" raises dust bigtime. I think too that during your visit the volcanic ash from Montserrat after a recent blow had also reached STT and contributed further to an element of general grime. "Abandoned buildings" on side roads often hark back to Hurricane Marilyn in 1995 when many homeowners whose homes were destroyed took their insurance and FEMA money and ran. Abandoned vehicles are an ongoing problem and the local Task Force in charge of removing them sometimes falls behind. General trash - yes of course we have a problem with that but, just playing devil's advocate, I don't think STT is really "dirty" compared to many other Caribbean islands. Not that that's an excuse by any means and I'm the first to go to war when my 'hood gets all trashed up!
What many visitors don't understand is the West Indian "politesse" and this might, just might, have been your problem with "rudeness." If you walk into any establishment or address anyone, whether it's a restaurant server, the supermarket checkout person, the hotel concierge, maid or the gas station attendant or whoever, say, "Good Morning or Good Evening or Good Day" before you even go further, Likewise if you're asking someone for directions, preface your question with the same greeting. If you just barge in with a question or demand, you're going to get an icy response and in many cases not even a response and sometimes outright rudeness.
I know this is hard to understand from a visitor's standpoint but, trust me, 'tis for true. It's one of those, "When in Rome" sort of things.
And don't wear on the street what you wear on the beach. Cover up! Beach is beach is beach. Locals get pretty feisty about visitors walking scantily-clad on the streets, whether in the country or in town. Men should wear a tee and not go barechested and ladies in teeny tops should wear a tee or a cover-up when off the beach. Again it's a "when in Rome" issue.
Sorry if I've rambled and am boring but I do live here and have for many, many years so am simply trying to impart some basics which, however much STT changes via development, still hold true.
Thanks so much for for posting your trip report. May you be blessed with a long and most happy and fulfilling marriage - and try us again some time! Cheers.
Connie,
I did not think you were ashowing any disrespect. I understand how all of you have wrote in to defend STT. As tourists, we don't get a real picture I am sure. But we all don't like the same thing when we go on vacation. It sounds like Byran will be happier in STJ . Of course all of us STJ lovers have to go through STT so we appreciate ya all putting up with us 🙂
The bottom line is I don't care which island i stay on, as long as i'm on either STT or STJ. We had a great time on our first trip there and I guarantee you that we'll be coming back again and again.
Just love the locations of the islands and how you can island hop. It's a perfect destination and I look forward to next month when we'll be there again.
STT Resident,
Thanks for your valid points that I didn't make! Good Morning, Good Afternoon, Good Night, or Good Day (depending on the time of day) are UTMOST inportant and always the first tip I give my guests when bringing them to thier villas!!! Those little greetings will make for a much happier, friendly responce and is key. I have found the locals to be very friendly in most everyday thing I do here and that too has changed drastically since I moved here 24 yrs ago! They are MUCH friendlier now!
BryanH, Sure hope you will try us again, maybe by being armed with just a little more info. STT is truly a wonderful place to visit!
Personally, no disrespect, I don't feel that behaviors would be any different in STJ than they are here. St. Jonians still use and demand the same greetings as we do! 🙂 STJ is simply a much quieter place, tho even Blu said way back on another thread....You can still find that piece and quiet right here in STT!!! Usually in a villa on the North side~
Bryan, still would love to know how you enjoyed your wedding?!
Thank you for all the responses! I didn't want to imply we had a bad time in any way - far from it - we had a wonderful time. Our wedding was great, we went through Weddings the Island Way, and the beaches were amazing and spotless.
As for greating the locals with Good Morning, we were told that right off the bat and did our best - and it did help with some of the locals. And of course, you aren't going to go anywhere and have everyone you meet be friendly. I guess I just felt a bit of resentment towards tourists from the locals. Kind of like tourists are a necessary evil to keep the economy going, and God knows there were plenty of rude tourists visiting while we were there so I can imagine it is only natural to get jaded towards them.
I have been to the Cayman Island and Jamaica, and that is the extent of my Carribean trips, so I don't know what St. Maarten is like. I would say the Cayman's are much cleaner and Jamaica is much dirtier. Although, I'm sure if I said that on a Jamaica Message Board, there would be residents and people who would get upset. 😉
Just out of curiousity - are there other places like Cuzzin's that do have "local" food? We had a helluva time trying to find a place that didn't just serve burgers, fries, etc. Like someone else said, a lot of tourists come down and probably order burgers more than anything, but we were looking forward to a lot of seafood, fruit, and "Carribean" flavors. It was ironic because people would recommend really good Italian places and I'd think to myself - why would you go all the way to STT to get Italian food?
So thanks again for all the responses, sorry if I sound picky or anything (I'm not) I just wanted to share my thoughts and observations.
BryanH,
Glad to hear back from you! There are alot of Restaurants to go to! Indigo at Megan's Point Resort is wonderful both for Lunch and Dinner! Victor's Hideaway for West Indian food- is excellent and been around for a very long time! Herve's, Agave' Terrace, Cafe' Amichi in town, Oh and Glady's Cafe also in town and West Indian food, Wikked at Yahct Haven Grande', Craig and Sally's in Frenchtown as well as Oceana, also a Room with a View and Banana Tree Grille which are located at Blue Beard's Castle! Soooo many to choose from! Yeah, I'm kinda with you on the Italian thing, we have 2 excellent Italian Restaurants, but to me, they are pricey as well! I wait til I get home (upstate NY) to go to my favorite Italian Restaurant!!!! 🙂
When you plan to come again (not IF, ha, ha) be sure to drop us a line for suggestions on a different place to stay (for a different experiance) and places to go! We would love to have you again! 🙂
BryanH is not alone in his observations. People are not very friendly and yes, I greeted most of them. In general, they don't seem very happy. Customer service was some of the worst we've encountered and I'm comparing this to Honolulu, Nassau in the Bahamas, Grand Cayman, Cancun, and Ocho Rios, Jamaica. We stayed on St. John for the week and trash is a problem there, too. The roadside from the ferry to the Westin is disgusting. I seriously thought about getting a large trash bag for each of my family members so we could pick up trash for an hour. If it weren't for the fact that we'd need to find gloves to wear, too, we would have done it. I'd think that would be a great example to people who live there to see tourists picking up trash.
Even with these harsh words, we still enjoyed ourselves like BryanH. The beaches were clean and beautiful. The Westin grounds and villa interiors were immaculate. The restaurants in Cruz Bay were outstanding.
Have you ever seen the comercial "almost"? So and so, "almost" did this, so and so "almost" did that!
No matter who you are, a local who cares or a tourist who cares, don't be afraid to pick up a little trash!! I have never worn gloves to do this!! I just wash my hands when I get to the nearest place to do it!!!!! 🙂
It only takes one person to make a differance!
Please take no offense, I am the daughter of a garbage man, and we used to take the truck up and down roads to pick up the street garbage with other youth. This was in upstate, NY. Yes, there are people who throw their trash down EVERYWHERE! There are programs in STT that do just the same, kids out with their special T-shirts to pick up everyones trash!
Did you know that tourists also contribute to the trash on the streets? Believe me it is true, tho I honestly believe that it is SOMETIMES not intended. Their tourist magazines often fall out of the safari busses when going around corners, ck out the road to Megan's by Udder Delight!!! I am sure they didn't mean it, but it happens!
We can all chip in, that is my point!
