You got to have a Matirach to keep everything at the discussion level
My grandmother had a cat-of-nine-tails that belong to her grandfather.
Considering she was born in 1901 - it made it pretty old, but functional
My older cousin to my knowledge was the only who got to experience it
just the mention of it brought fear to children and adults alike
The secret to a good debate is not to argue
Not sure the topic was ever as important as how you played the game

Instead of our usual trip to STJ this year we decided to go up to Napa for 10 days (which is way too much time), somewhere we have never been even after spending almost a lifetime in California. I had never known the differences between any of different wines or even the production of wine. Aside from all of the tasting and the vinyards we visited, I sure learned quite a bit and am still enjoying the process by having bottles sent to me every month. I don't necessarily think someone has to make the trip out here to visit Napa, but I might suggest that if you are truly interested, find a "good" local wine merchant or restaurant that has tastings. You can definitely learn a lot.

I remember believing that 2 buck Chuck from Trader Joes, was decent and that the price was good for the quality. I now realize that I was drinking terrible "wine" and understand why it was so cheap.

Yes, knowledge does cost you more money per bottle, but it's all worth it.

Thanks for listening.

Wine Spectator
Food & Wine

Yes, they are now delivered to my door.

Signed
A wine snob on training wheels

VI Lover you asked: “How do you develop a more distinguished taste?”

The simple answer is just like anything else practice – Drink more Wine!
A lot of folks who are into wine will disagree with me, but the simple rule is:
If you like the wine – it is good wine

However… the big step is if you think it is a good wine and it says Merlot on the label for example – Is it a good Merlot? The two answers are not necessarily the same.

Price does not necessarily reflect the quality of wine, but it is safe to say the chances of you getting a Merlot that is a good Merlot (not just wine) improves with price.

Wine pricing is dramatically influenced by supply demand. If a winery makes a great merlot that should sell for $15 to $20, but only made 7000 cases there is limited supply. The trade magazines herald it as a best buy at $15. Next thing you know you are competing with everybody in the world to find this wine at $15. You finally find a bottle and run to the counter to realize the sticker says $40. California boutique wineries and established Bordeaux Chateaus are famous for this. Not necessarily them directly, but those who market and distribute the wine.

Trust you local wine merchant – establish a relationship – and they will begin to understand your taste.

So here is my recommendation if you are serious about the next step without turning it into a science fair project.

Right now in my mind Spanish Wines are probably the best bang for the buck out there today. They reasonably valued for the quality and becoming much more available. The exhibit great fruit, but still keep the tradition old world wine making.

Get a bottle of Spanish Rioja – the Tempranillo grape is the primary fruit and it is even better it the bottle says 100% Tempranillo.
Look for 2001 – Great Year for that region
Suggest you stay in the $15 range, if says Resrvas on the bottle price jumps, but not much

Open the bottle pour a little in a glass swirl it around (yes it does make a difference) and taste. Chances are you may not like the first taste.

Let it sit opened for about 10-15 minutes then fill your wine glass – you will find that the wine has changed and evolved to a new level. Finish the glass

Now the steak you had on the grill is done – pour the third glass and enjoy
Once again you will find the Rioja has changed.

Over the next weeks/months continue to seek 2001 Riojas and you will begin to establish a baseline. Then venture out to other years. You will probably find that the younger wines have more fruit, but a little tart. The older wines may be lacking in fruit but are silky smooth. Wines change over time. They go dormant and then wake up – kinda weird.

The final test after a lot of experimentation is go find a 1994 or 1995 Reserva Rioja. Expect to pay $40 to $60. Rioja from these years are fantastic and fully mature to drink. My guess would be the fruit and earthiness will be perfectly balance and all will be right in the world. The cost is because they are old and harder to find.

By then you will be a Rioja expert – time to move to the next grape. In no time at all you will definitely know what you like and do not like in wine or a specific region, or grape.

Then will come the day that you find on the shelf a wine that is $7.99 a bottle and everything about it is wonderful. And you know it is wonderful because it has all the right characteristics for the grape or region that is called out on the label and it is only $7.99

Here again keeping on Topic – I was very impressed with the depth of knowledge of the young lady at XO Wine Bar in Red Hook. The wine selection was good by the glass and wine steward (not bartender) knew her products.

It is so wonderful to hear about how everyone spends Thanksgiving. It really is my favorite because it is all about Family and Friends - being together - giving thanks. Not about gifts and spending, like Christmas has unfortunately become for many. My daughter and I will take a long walk later today and collect beautiful leaves to be used as part of the decor.

Yes, Sherri, mom is big on creating pretty serving trays for meals...and on silver and crystal...and all that nasty brown polish that goes with silver. However, all of that saves us from having to clean-up after her meals. She wouldn't dare trust anyone to wash her pieces. And now I am thinking about the gifts I have received that I plan to use for my table - and what I need to run out and replace before Thanksgiving (before my mom and aunts notice what pieces are "missing" from what they have given me). Who knew that the gold rim on Waterford crystal glasses would come off in the dishwasher. (shaking head in shame for using the dishwasher on HOT - probably on the "pot scrubber" setting)

TomB and others,
Thank you for the wine advice.

It is hard for us in Pennsylvania. We don't have privately owned wine stores. Our stores are owned by the Commonwealth of PA - hence the name "State Stores". The employees are State employees and really don't know anything about the wine - but they are very nice people.

We can go to NJ to get advice from private store owners- but we cannot bring wine back into PA. There are sometimes checkpoints at the bridges to check trunks for such offenses (smuggling). I know people who have been ticketed and had their entire holiday liquor purchase confiscated at the bridge. (people smuggle because the prices are higher in PA and the selection is limited)

Thus, enjoying wine in the Quaker Commonwealth is quite the challenge! I can't even have it shipped to me via those wine clubs on the net 🙁

We are making progress, though. The Commonwealth has recently begun to have some of the State Stores open on Sundays!!

I am so pleased to be able to confer with you experts!

Blu -

While in Gettysburg PA this past Sept., we shopped at a wine store that had wine from the Adam's County Winery (I think). I assumed it was like a privately owned wine store. You could sample different wines and buy what you liked. I bought a white wine tho it was a little too sweet for me, that was called "Tears of Gettysburg" which is there biggest seller ( so the lady said). Haven't even tried it yet - thought I might save it for T-giving!

I'm editing because I went and looked at the bottle of red that I bought, and it is from the Gettysburg Winery, not Adams Co. winery. I guess there are 2 separate wineries (sp?) there in Adams Co.

After surviving another 120 mile trip on I-95 that took 6 hours in holiday traffic, some friends and I got together and swapped I-95/Thanksgiving horror stories. After decompressing, thanks to lots of help from my liquid boyfriend, Kendall Jackson, there was an epiphany...What was the first Thanksgiving? The pilgrims, the Indians, getting together and sharing a meal. Did the Pilgrims hop on a boat and go back to England? No! They stayed where the were! Thanksgiving should be spent with friends, neighbors, and local family.

Okay, I confess, I'll travel if someone else does the driving 😉 But if family ever pressures you into traveling when you don't want to, use the Pilgrims going back to England thing. I worked for me 🙂

This Thanksgiving is going to be quiet one for us. Just me and the Mr. Richmond. A friend is going to fry the turkey for us. I'll make the usual fare, cornbread stuffing, cranberry sauce, mashed potatoes, gravy, green beans (maybe casserole, maybe w/almonds, haven't decided). There is one dish that is present at all of our Thanksgivings, spinach and wild rice casserole. Forget the turkey, I just want to eat the sides.

Lex probably has his Thanksgiving dinner at a restaurant 😉

MG-

I think the rule is that you can sell PA produced wine privately in PA. So, there are private wineries with stores attached. What I haven't been able to find is a way to buy wine from anywhere but PA...sold outside of the State Store. Somehow, a wine called "Tears of Gettysburg" - the bloodiest battle of the Civil War - doesn't sound very appealing. 🙁 Maybe if it was translated into French, it would sound better: "les déchirures de gettysburg". There ya go - that's better!

Richmond, I'll have to remember that about the Pilgrims if ever asked to travel. Your dinner for two sounds cozy! My cousins mother in law just sent an email to her 9 (cousin's hubby is one of 9) children advising that after 52 years of Thanksgivings with them and more recently with them and their families, she wants to try somehting new - dinner with her husband - ALONE! The phones and email are on fire about THAT one!!! The guys just shrugged it off - but the women are all insulted (my cousin included, since she is hosting this year) and trying to figure out whose "fault" it is.

Blu - thanks, you just ruined the wine for me! no, just kidding, you do have a point tho! 🙂

maybe your cousin's mother-in-law got tired of cooking for the brood and wanted a rest this year. If those nine children brought all their children, that's alot of (possibly misbehaving) children. can't say as I blame her heehee!

Blu, I am sorry but I am a Texan and we eat different down here, so I don't think you would want my cornbread dressing recipe, my sweet tater pie recipe, or the other stuff we inhale down here at Thanksgiving, but I thought you might like my special carrot cake recipe for another occasion , which is THE best carrot cake you will ever eat !! I threw this thing together, starting with a basic carrot cake recipe and then adding stuff until it looked good and brought it for a family get-together. Wow! Everyone was eating 2-3 slices and begging for the recipe so I had to sit down and figure out how I made it and write it down! It is loaded with calories though! Do ya'll eat carrot cake up in the frozen north? Hee-hee! Just teasing! Here goes:

Sharon’s Carrot Cake

2 c. sifted all-purpose flour
2 c. sugar
2. t. baking powder
1 ½ t. baking soda
pinch salt
3 t. cinnamon
4 large eggs, beaten
2 c. processed carrots
¾ c. crushed pineapple,drained and pressed somewhat dry (retain juice)
1 c. chopped pecans
1 ½ c. shredded Baker’s coconut
¾ c. boiled raisins ( to plump them up)
1 ½ c. cooking oil
2 t. vanilla (Adam’s Best Vanilla)
¼ c. pineapple juice(more if it looks too dry)

Frosting:

8 oz. cream cheese, softened
1 stick of Land 0’ Lakes sweet butter,salted (not margarine!)
1 to 2 t. Adam’s Best vanilla
About a 1/3 to ½ bag of powdered sugar (start with a 1/3 bag and use more if needed)
½ to 1 c. Baker’s shredded coconut

Combine all dry ingredients except coconut in a large bowl, mixing very well. Add beaten eggs and oil and mix well. Add 2 t. vanilla. Process carrots into tiny pieces and add to mix. Drain pineapple in a colander, retaining the juice, and press to remove most of the juice from the pineapple. Add to mix. Boil raisins until they are plumped up and drain in colander. Add to mix. Boiling raisins keeps them from removing moisture from the cake. Add chopped pecans. Add coconut. Mix well after each addition.
Pour into well-greased and floured pan/s and bake at 350 until toothpick comes out clean when
placed in the center. Careful not to overbake or it will dry the cake. Makes a 13 x 9 pan. Cool before frosting.

Frosting: Sit out cream cheese and butter until soft. Place in a medium mixing bowl and beat well, adding small amounts of powdered sugar until the consistency looks right. I only added enough to make it frost well. Add vanilla and coconut. Start with a half cup of coconut and go from there, depending on how much you want.
There should not be so much coconut that the frosting is rough looking.Should still look creamy. If you get too much, add more butter and cream cheese. If the frosting looks a little dry you can always add a tiny bit of milk. Spread on cooled cake and refrigerate covered. Freezes well.

hugs,
Sharon

Okay, I am adding my Sweet Potato Casserole and spinach/crab dip recipe just in case you or anyone else might want to try it. I am afraid neither is an original Sharon creation, but both are very good. I make up the dip the day before, then serve it in a round Hawaiian King bread with the middle scopped out. Any soft and sweet bread will do, or just serve it in a dip bowl with fancy crackers. I use artificial crab meat because King crab legs are so expensive down here, but I am sure it would taste much better with King crab lumpmeat. It would not taste good with blue crab meat!

Sweet Potato Casserole
• 1 1/2 cups mashed sweet potatoes -- warm
• 1/2 cup sugar
• 4 tablespoons butter or margarine
• 1 egg -- slightly beaten
• 1/2 cup coconut
• 1/3 cup milk
• 1/2 teaspoon vanilla
Topping:
• 1/2 cup light brown sugar
• 1/2 cup chopped pecans
• 1/4 cup flour
• 4 tablespoons butter or margarine -- melted
• dash salt
Combine sweet potatoes, sugar, butter or margarine, egg, coconut, milk and vanilla; mix well. Pour into buttered casserole dish. Mix light brown sugar, pecans, flour, melted butter or margarine, and salt. Pour over top of potato mixture. Bake at 350 degrees for 20 to 30 minutes.

CRAB-SPINACH DIP

1 pkg. (10 oz.) frozen chopped spinach, thawed and drained
1 16 oz. sour cream
1 c. Hellmann’s Mayonnaise
1 pkg. Knorr Vegetable Soup, Dip, & Recipe Mix
3 green onions, chopped
1 stalk celery, sliced thin
1 8-10 oz. pkg. fake crab chunks,flaked

1. In medium bowl stir spinach, sour cream, mayonnaise,
soup mix, crab, and green onions until well mixed.
2. Cover and chill at least 2 hours to blend flavors.
3. Stir well before serving. If desired, spoon into a round
bread bowl that you have scooped a hollow space out of.
Serve with crackers or chips.

Bluwater, I think it would be a good idea to have a favor that people can take home from your dinner. In the past, I've made themed wine glass charms (once I even made them using people's photos), Xmas ornaments, candles, etc. I like to take my portable photo printer to events so people can take home photos of themselves at the gathering.

We always plan and play some game(s). We're considering "Scene It" this year, though so far, we haven't tried it.

As for food, someone suggested a roasted vegetable recipe. Those would work well with turkey, because they could be cooking at the same time in the oven. Dare I say have a spinach salad? Or some kind of mixed-green salad with nuts, etc to dress it up.

Nothing beats a good ice cream, and you can use fancy martini glasses for serving. Of course, that's in addition to the pie, because I think it's nice to give people choices. I usually also include something fruity.

Adding white wine to the turkey gravy goes a long way to making gravy more "elegant" (if gravy could ever be elegant!) I like to do half stock/half wine.

Enjoy!

Hey all!!! Just checking in. I have been missing this board terribly since I was busy with work/travel for work and planning Thanksgiving! Sharon, thanks for the recipes. Cornbread dressing is a huge deal - even up here in the North. I am doing it with oysters. Mmmmmmmm.......

Marie, Thanks for the tips about the favors. I was thinking that it was a good idea, but couldn't come up with anything good. Your ideas sound great! Yes, spinach is (gasp) on the menu - a pear and spinach salad with shaved parmasean - salad course.

I've been a busy (naughtly) bee on Ebay - crystal and china! Noritake, Haviland and Waterford galore - love the gilt on the Noritake! Everyday is like Christmas when the postman comes! I have this huge table with it all layed out and it looks like I just got married and my wedding gifts have arrived....everything down to each place setting's individual sterling open salts and pepper shakers 🙂 I AM A SICK WOMAN - but my credit card company LOVES me! 🙂

I've also discovered Wegmans Gourmet Market! Have any of you been to this cook's mecca? OMG!!! I could spend a full day in this place...and probably will on Tuesday.

I have 14 guests confirmed - not bad. We can fit at one table - nice. I have yet to buy the wines, but will tomorrow. I have been sampling for to weeks based on the suggestions here.

Sorry I am rushing. My daughter wants me to watch a movie with her and I am 10 mins late. Will check back REALLY soon.

MISS you all!!

~Blu

Can't wait for the report on your Thanksgiving Dinner. Take time to enjoy it and your guests.
Carole

Bluwater, glad you're still with us. I am truly looking forward to your Thanksgiving dinner "trip report" 😉

Do you need Noritake Halifax? I think I've got 12 place settings that have NEVER been used!

Cornbread Dressing, YUM. My sister makes two batches; one w/oysters, one w/o. I love me some oysters, but not in my dressing. Go figure.

Does anyone have a good Cornbread Dressing recipe?

Forgot to add, if you have a Wegman's in your area, GO!!! They have the best produce, butcher, baker, and candlestick maker (ok, they really don't have one of those) around. Their prepared foods are awesome. At the bread bakery in our Wegman's we have a serious bread pusher. He hands out samples and yells, "You Wait, You Late!" He's hysterical.

I was at our local Wegman's yesterday to get one of their brined turkey breasts. Since we are going out to eat Thanksgiving Day, I'm preparing a mini dinner just for left overs! Figured the turkey breast was the way to go. I've heard that "the breast is best", but I'm pretty sure that's in reference to something else. I always thought going out to eat on Thanksgiving was sad, but a friend of ours invited us to join him & his wife at one of the best restaurants in the DC area (for those of you familiar w/the area, we are going to L'Auberge Chez Francois in Great Falls).

thanks

Coden & Sharon

One each Kahlua Pecan Pie is currently in the oven
and the Sweet Potato Cassrole recipe is on the counter as a coming attraction for Thursday
Thanks so much for your help in shaking up Thanksgiving Dinner

Happy Holidays

Richmond,

My Noritake/Nippon is #175 a.k.a "Christmas Ball". I pair it with gold and white Haviland - will try to get a shot of my table on Thursday. We're down to 12 people for dinner since some are coming only for dessert. This made it easier because I can seat 12 at one table.

Your Noritake pattern is also very pretty. Why no use?

Yes, WEGMANS! Went there today!! Aren't the employees just the best? Of course (because tonight seemed to be the unofficial grocery shopping for Thanksgiving night), they were out of a couple of things that I really need and they told me to come back in the morning when the trucks roll in - but the closest Wegmans is about 40-50 mins from me, so I'll have to make due without. They did have plenty of oysters - I needed them for the cornbread stuffing and for another oyster dish I am serving....Poached Oysters and Artichokes with Champagne Cream. http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/recipe_views/views/236391

My favorite Wegmans section is the CHEESE section and the people there who can tell me everything about every cheese they have. They were kind enough to help me collect all of the ingredients to copy their torte - saga blue, camembert and mascarpone - layered with walnuts, dried fruit and topped with more walnuts and (of all things) butterscotch. You have to try it.

I don't have a cornbread stuffing recipe for you without the oysters - sorry 🙁 I'm sure FoodNetwork.com has something yummy for you. Check with Emeril's section on there. I have family in Great Falls, VA. Let us know ho you like that restaurant and maybe I'll try to check it out on one of these visits. Sounds oh-so French (and good).

Can't wait to hear about everyone else's gatherings!

Have a great Thanksgiving! It sounds like you are having a great party!
Frankly, I wish that I were one of those lucky ducks on STJ for Thanksgiving!
On the plus side, it is supposed to be 56 degrees here (good for WI).

I haven't personally tried this but Brian Wilson on Fox News highly recommended it and it sure seems easy enough!

Cornbread Stuffing

Start with a pan of cornbread (I make mine from scratch, but the cornbread mixes will do fine). After the cornbread cools, break it up into tiny pieces in a big bowl. Pour in one package of herbal stuffing. Chop up an onion and some celery — add a little seasoning to taste. Add three eggs.
Start mushing it up with your hands as you add canned chicken broth until everything is moist. The goal here is to make it about the consistency of thick oatmeal. Put the mixture in a pan and cook for an hour to an hour and a half at 400 degrees.

Put a big 'ol scoop on your plate and smother it in giblet gravy. Roll your eyes toward the heavens and shout in unison, "Good gosh, almighty! This is delicious!"

When you savor this delectable side dish — this manna from heaven — you will have one more thing to be thankful for.