iheartstjohn,

Please be sure to remind us that this forum is not a place for social justice issues everytime we discuss supporting your local fundraisers, donating to your causes, circling and signing your petitions, etc...

Will you be going down to the wonderful Genips for Crits thead and posting this? Should we not discuss Wagapalooza? The Humane Society annual ball?

Here's my take...as long as it's positive and paints the VI in a good light, we can discuss it. If not, the topic is off-limits. Janie Cockayne was a visitor when her son was murdered on the island.

Here's my take...as long as it's positive and paints the VI in a good light, we can discuss it. If not, the topic is off-limits.

That may be yours take but it is not mine. What else could possibly be said that hasn't been covered on the murder especially since everyone is following it so closely they didn't even note that the prosceutors' office screwed up! I certainly would not put events that visitors can attend and enjoy in the same catagory as a horrific murder but that's your choice

Janie Cockayne was a visitor when her son was murdered on the island.

And what does that have to do with it or that a tourist was murdered as opposed to a resident His murder is so much more important because he was a visitor than anyone who lives on the island or in the USVI?

BTW, her name is Jean

It's really all been said and it is unfortunate that all you legal eagles out there don't run down to the islands and solve all their problems and make life there as good and as crime free as the rest of the world.

According to a recent study by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, UNODC, the Carribean Basin today features the highest murder rate in Latin America, at 30 per 100,000 people, as compared to 26 per 100,000 in the rest of Latin America, and 7 per 100,000 in the US.

Two thoughts. First, I realize this is a vacation board....crime and murder rates are, I think, valuable informaiton for a would-be visitor to the Islands to have.

Second, iheartsstjohn suggests that the legal eagles should "run down to the islands and solve all their problems and make life there as good and as crime free as the rest of the world." I realize he is being sarcastic. Perhaps when he considers the UNDOC statistics he will realize that his suggestion might actually be a good one.

"And what does that have to do with it or that a tourist was murdered as opposed to a resident His murder is so much more important because he was a visitor than anyone who lives on the island or in the USVI? "

I didn't say that at all.

You wanted to know why we were addressing this on a visitor's forum. My point is that Mrs Cockayne was a visitor when this happened. I was responding to your own objection to this discussion.

And, to Realitycheck's point, people who make the "crime happens everywhere" point probably do so without understanding how the VI compares to US as a whole. Comparing the per capita murder rate is sobering, then add to that a comparison of the solvency rates and you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that the state of affairs down there is just like anywhere else.

I don't think anyone here is trying to tell the VI what to do abut crime. You can run your business/islands as you see fit. Just don't act surprised and angry when we question how safe it is for us to visit. It is a valid questions - and we have a right to consider the answer, independent of glossy travel brochures.

iheartsstjohn,

I would of liked to private message you, but since I can't, i'd like you to know 2 things.

I know what it is like to lose a child because I've lost one, so I will never have to answer your questions about that.

Also, I have talked to Jeanie pesonally and she won't be reading or posting anything else because of the terrible things that have been suggested about her son. Like he was in someway responsible for his stabbing and death.

Enough said...just not worth it. It's just very very sad.

Also, if you don't think this forum is a place to talk about it. Why haven't you reported these messages and that will be the end of this thread?

"However if you get a copy of the police arrest warrant it was Selmo's good friend that put Selmo at the murder scene. yep truth is Six pack stated to police that he and Selmo chased jamie up the street. So do your homework, why would six pack implicate his buddy? Oh now that he has been housed with Selmo for more than a week I am sure they have had time to get their stories straight. GEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ"

-- not to piss anyone off, but when she said friend, i don't think she was talking about any potential eye witness, she was referring to this "Six Pack" kid telling on his friend, Selmo. She didn't name anyone that wasn't already named. I understand her frustration and her wanting to set the record straight. just be open minded. my mother always told me there are 3 sides to a story. one person's account, the other person's account, and the truth. Prayfully, the truth will come out and justice be served.

-- me being a st. johnian, i can see from Texas a rapid increase in not just crimes, but violent crimes, on St. John and the other islands. i have always said to friends and family that the Federal government should intervene and take over the government and maybe something can be done to resolve this phenomenon. There seems to be corruption from the top and until that is taken care of, it will still remain a domino effect.

Connie you are rightbut I am sorry that she feels that people said terrible things about her son. We actually know more about those arrested than we do of Jamie. It would be nice to know of him and the good memories she has of him and the good times they shared. Why he wanted to be a sailor? When did he learn to sail? Was he able to do much on the River? Did he go to college after high school and what job did he quit to follow his dream? How many times has he been to the VI's and how long had he been on St. John? We know about those arrested, where they were born and so on but really nothing about Jamie.
I don't think anyone with any brains thinks it was his fault that he was murdered but you do realize that many people made choices that night that lead to a brutal ending.
Beside as any destination becomes more popular there is an increase in crime. Doesn't make it right but it happens.

Sobering facts:

Murder rate in 2006 for USVI:
39.1 per 100,000

Murder rate in 2005 for the nation:
5.6 per 100,000

Average solvency in the USVI:
25%

Average solvency for the nation:
62%

Here is a clue for you, iheartsstjohn: The USVI is NOT just like anywhere else in the USA, and murder is swept under the rug on the islands, plain and simple.

iheart, all of the info you were asking about Jamie has been in the press and in various letters from Mrs Cockayne to the press....right down to where he was born, afer whom he was named, his high school, his sports, his certifications in seamanship and his recent graduation from school in Florida where he was certified to instruct, his intended career in Virgin Gorda. Some of us know much more about him that we do the accused. You might know more about the accused because you are reading STJ news, and the accused are STJ residents. Here, we are seeing more about Jamie Cockayne, because he was a local resident where Connie and I live.

Please don't dismiss the power of what we are seeing and hearing here. The murder is still very much at the forefront.

texas,

The forum admin did remove the post in which the Mom named the alleged witness (thank you, Islander!) It was not the post about Selmo.

A lot of people on this board have no interest in this case, and those I would ask to simply skip this thread. But residents of the island do care - and surprisingly, many if not most are in favor of all this publicity. We are hopeful that it will begin to bring about some long overdue changes.

- Sunburn

Sunburn, glad Islander removed that too. I'm sure at this point Mrs. Cockayne could care less what she says because of the anger and sorrow she is experiencing.

I'm glad you posted that the islanders do care. I would hope that there are people in St. John that won't let this case rest.

Although I've only stayed on St. Thomas, I would hope that I could continue going to places like Duffy's at night and not worry about anybody in my party getting into a bar fight because somebody did or said something stupid.

I love St. Thomas and St. John and everybody should feel safe no matter where they go down there and not feel like a few out of control people will ruin it for everybody else.

Let's not turn these islands into another Jamaica where you have to stay in a "compound" to feel safe.

noone,
Your stats are a little skewed, the number your referring to is the resident population not taken is the fact of the number of tourists on the islands at any given time. Compared to smaller city on the mainland its about even. Percentages of unsolved crimes depends on who and how they are carried on the National crime list, and how they get reported.

When all else fails iheartstjohn, repeat the same lame argument used over and over by a few local posters - "Why don't tourists care as much when a local is murdered as when a tourist is murdered?"

I live in Chicago. Should I expect the millions of visitors that come to our city every year to be as concerned with local crime on the west side as they are about a tourist being accosted in the Loop or the Magnificent Mile? Of course not. Does that make them insensitive or unfeeling? Absolutely not. It's human nature to be more concerned about anything that could affect you directly.

Let me ask you - are you as concerned about the damage Hurricane Dean may do to the Mexican coast as you were about what it might have done a few days ago where you live? Are you as worried about someone's property being damaged in Jamaica as you were your own? Would you have the same degree of anger and disgust over someone robbing your neighbor's home as you would your own home?

Don't kid yourself. You're no different than anyone else. Quit trying to make visitors feel guilty for acting the exact same way you would, given the same circumstances. If you want to be a useful participant on this board, stick to what you know - giving out directions, offering an opinion about some restaurant, or whatever.

lizard, your argument "Your stats are a little skewed, the number your referring to is the resident population not taken is the fact of the number of tourists on the islands at any given time" can be easily reversed, as you do not take into account the amount of tourists "Compared to smaller city on the mainland "

The stats I stated are correct.

To put things in a slightly different perspective:

This really is a fairly obscure internet travel forum. Only a tiny percentage of people either living on the Virgin Islands or visitors to the Virgin Islands ever read this forum and even fewwer post on it. So it certainly shouldn't be assumed that the opinions found here are in any way representaive. The large majority of posts on this thread have been written by a handful of people. This thread has been viewed a few thousand times, but the majority of views have been by the same people over and over. It's pretty much the same small group folks talking and debating amongst themselves. I certainly don't believe that what i read here, interesting as it may be, gives me any idea what the vast majority of residents and tourists think. This is like eavesdropping on one small group of people at a bar or diner and believing that I understand what a community thinks. It's hardly a representative sampling.

With all due respect the statistics do not reflect the vast numbers of people who visit here yearly so comparing the crime rate using population is ridiculous. Also we are not in Latin America. I realize you Americans never learned basic geography but it behooves you to look at a map.

If STJ is such a fright then perhaps you might be more comfortable going down-island but that would entail getting a passport. This subject has been beaten to death with nothing accomplished except to show who thinks they're superior to locals whilst pretending to be experts in all things related to the Virgin Islands. When all of your crime is solved possibly we might ask for direction in solving ours.

JohnThomas,

with all due respect, i don't think the posters on this board see themselves as superior to locals nor as experts on the virgin islands,or anything else for that matter. they are people who love the virgin islands and are passionate about the islands-the good and the bad.

the circumstances that surround the death of this young man and the various conflicting reports and accounts that have surfaced in its aftermath have provoked rumour,hearsay and inevitably a passionate debate amongst passionate people-not gung ho geographically challenged americans. these people care, thats why they post.

John Thomas: The USVI are part of Latin America. Not all Americans are geographically-challenged. And by the way...if you are a resident of the USVI, guess what? You're an American citizen! Maybe you want to think twice before criticizing "you Americans."

Acutally, many people who are residents of the USVI are not citizens of the US, but residents aliens, many from "down island" as we say here.

And obviously, the poster really meant and should have said "you continentials" not "you Americans".

If STJ is such a fright then perhaps you might be more comfortable going down-island but that would entail getting a passport. This subject has been beaten to death with nothing accomplished except to show who thinks they're superior to locals whilst pretending to be experts in all things related to the Virgin Islands. When all of your crime is solved possibly we might ask for direction in solving ours.

John Thomas....I don't think anyone ever said that they were superior to locals or that they were experts

You confuse the whole point of this thread. This murder happened on your island and I think you experts should of asked for help a long time ago. From what I read, there are quite a few murders that go unsolved for either lack of expertise or just because they don't care.

Are you not an American as alot of us are?