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 Pia
(@pia)
Posts: 1036
Noble Member
Topic starter
 

Thought I would start a new thread for all who have given up following the "Truth in Forums" thread because of all the bitc**** going on.

Have heard that an arrest was made last night at 9:30pm - again not 100% that it is not another rumor but will let you know for sure as soon as I hear.

Pia

 
Posted : August 4, 2007 11:06 am
(@Crossing My Fingers)
Posts: 1
 

I am hoping that they got the right guy and, more importantly, that they can make the conviction stick. As has been widely reported, the evidence has been compromised by the local cops..either because they're a bunch of stooges or because they wanted to make it very difficult for an arrest and conviction. The cynic in me thinks its the latter. I mean c'mon...they tossed out physical evidence because they ran out of evidence bags? And as for "finally doing something right," you can bet they grabbed this guy because the Cockaynes had brought down the wrath of God on their sorry butts. If this hadn't become such a news story...and such a potential threat to tourism dollars....good old "Six Pack" would still be sitting at the bar bragging about the killing and the cops would once again be asleep in their squad car. Personally, I hope the heat stays on this situation....not just to get a conviction in Jamie's murder, but to pull back the curtain on the corruption that permeates the local cops.

 
Posted : August 4, 2007 9:11 pm
(@ronusvi)
Posts: 1134
Noble Member
 

See, when I said there were two sides to the story, here it is case in point. The FBI was in on the investigation as well as the family had been constantly updated. Here is the news article from the Source:

Aug. 5, 2007 – A St. John resident was arrested late Friday in the nationally publicized stabbing death of 21-year-old James "Jamie" Cockayne on St. John a little more than six weeks ago.
Police Commissioner James McCall said 18-year-old Kamal "Six Pack" Thomas of Gifft Hill was charged with first-degree murder, first-degree assault and using a dangerous weapon during the commission of a crime of violence.
Thomas is being held without bail. He will appear for an advice of rights hearing before Superior Court Judge Leon Kendall at 11 a.m. Monday.
Cockayne, who had recently moved to St. John, was stabbed to death some time after midnight on June 19 in downtown Cruz Bay. (See "Police Investigating Stabbing Death in Enighed") According to police reports, Cockayne was transported by ambulance to the Myrah Keating Smith Community Health Center, where he was pronounced dead at 1:10 a.m.

Cockayne's parents, Jean and Bill Cockayne of New Hope, Penn., claimed they had received no information from V.I. police about the investigation into their son's death. In a FOX News report aired during "On the Record with Greta Van Susteren" on Tuesday, Cockaynes' parents complained that police failed to keep them updated on the investigation.
Several other national news outlets have weighed in on the local response to the murder, suggesting that V.I. officials were not acting quickly enough and didn't seem concerned about Cockayne's death. It was rumored Saturday that CNN had also come to the territory at the behest of the Cockaynes.
In a statement late Saturday from his office, the police commissioner said, "The Police Department and Office of the Attorney General have kept in regular communication with the Cockayne family," adding that the family was notified at the time the arrest was made.
The statement said the investigation is ongoing and asked that anyone with information contact police by calling 911 or Major Crime at 715-5544.
"We will continue to keep the family up to date with ongoing communication regarding this case as we continue our deliberate and thorough investigation," McCall said. He credited the FBI for their assistance in the ongoing investigation.
"The U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation was contacted the day after the Cockayne homicide on June 20 and has been working in conjunction with us through the Safe Streets Initiative," McCall said.
The police commissioner also thanked the National Park Service for their help at the time of the incident. McCall said Park Service employees transported VIPD officers and detectives to St. John the night of the murder.

RL

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 12:29 am
(@promoguy)
Posts: 630
Honorable Member
 

Now if you go through all of the pictures that I posted on the site I mentioned, you might just catch a glimpse of our RonnieUSVI. One of the hottest gys you'll ever meet.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 1:22 am
(@connie)
Posts: 1634
Noble Member
 

In a statement late Saturday from his office, the police commissioner said, "The Police Department and Office of the Attorney General have kept in regular communication with the Cockayne family," adding that the family was notified at the time the arrest was made.
The statement said the investigation is ongoing and asked that anyone with information contact police by calling 911 or Major Crime at 715-5544.

Ronnie...I believe that the police were in contact with the Cockanyne's only after an arrest was made or close to it. I prefer to believe the family, that they were not being informed of anything before the arrest. Maybe that's because the police wanted to keep that information to themselves, but still, the least the police could of done is call them with "something".

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 7:55 am
(@Continental)
Posts: 1
 

The authorities were definitely not in contact with the family throughout this ordeal. There is a great deal of butt-covering going on at the moment. The world is now seeing a different side of "Paradise" and the USVI government is in a sweat that the tourism-dependent economy will take a major hit.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 8:41 am
(@becky-r)
Posts: 102
Estimable Member
 

And compromise an investigation? What is to say other than "we have leads and we're working on it, we'll be back with you as soon as something is concrete" (which the VIPD DID do after an arrest was made). ?

Everyone on STJ may have known who the killer was - everyone - but to ask the police to the keep the family informed on every step is ludicrous. "Knowing" and "having sufficient evidence to arrest or indict" are two entirely different things. Witnesses have been known to stretch the truth, go on long vacations, or have a memory lapse when directly questioned - and the statements should keep measure with the evidence, as boondoggled as it may have been. The investigation started off badly from the response time and lack of preservation of evidence.......so putt the police commissioner on the spot about that topic - it happens every day.

While I agree that families should be told "we are continuing, we have a suspect, we have good leads", and communication should have been maintained in that manner......whatever......this family has been, as I would be, very vocal about everything. A stitch in time saves nine, loose lips sink ships, whatever twists you want to put on it, the family does not inherently have the right to know every step in a criminal investigation because they could inadvertently compromise the situation. I DO believe that added pressure from stateside, the Natalee Holloway story, and other factors helped the VIPD on their way, but when gathering evidence in a crime, the family or onlookers don't get to know the full story - that's saved for court much of the time, and sometimes it doesn't come out then under suppression rules.

Although I have had my issues with VIPD and their response to violent crime in the past, I can't find fault with them simply for not telling the family every scrap of evidence and every possible lead they might have had. I would bet a good half of the information received never panned out. Don't be so hard on these guys....maybe they have a ways to go to be exemplary, but they have a tough job, too. To assume that there wasn't an instant arrest because no one cared and the matter only became pressing after the external factors came into the picture is erroneous thinking - we simply do not know.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 8:49 am
(@Justice)
Posts: 1
 

This is an excerpt of an e-mail sent by the Cockayne family to a local website. This was sent before the arrest was made, but you can get an idea of just how helpful and diligent the police were.

Jamie was murdered on June 19th between 12:15 - 12:30(just after midnight). Within 90 minutes and before detectives could arrive, the local police ordered that the scene be hosed off. Jamie was wearing a baseball cap. According to witnesses, the baseball cap was discarded because the police were out of evidence bags. The local newspaper, The Tradewinds, routinely posts articles discussing law enforcement's inability to solve any crimes. After Jamie was murdered, one witness fled the islands in fear of his/her safety -- he/she was afraid of the perpetrators and the police. After the murder, we were candidly told by others that were victimized on the island that if you want the crime to be solved, you will have to do it yourself.

In addition, government officials have refused to provide any information to the family. After we repeatedly requested a face to face meeting to discuss the progress of the case, local officials told us they would meet. Ironically, they never agreed to meet until a day after the family left the island. When we
agreed to participate in a meeting telephonically, they cancelled the meeting 45 minutes after it was supposed to begin. The meeting was supposed to begin at 9:30 am. Having not received a call by 9:45am, the family attorney called and was told they were running late. Still not receiving a call by 10:00am, the family attorney called again and was told they were running late. At 10:15am, they called the family attorney and said that they were canceling the meeting without any explanation. Subsequently, we found out that Agent Schmidt (from the FBI) did not even know about the meeting -- yet, he was supposed to be present for the meeting.

With this background, we were faced with the unfortunate reality that the police were not going to solve this crime and we employed a private investigator. This was done at a great expense to the family. We received the final report along with tape recorded interviews from key witnesses on this past Wednesday, July 25, 2007. Our original plan was to turn this report over to the local police in a meeting. We requested a meeting and requested that the U.S. attorney's office and Agent Schmidt be present. Candidly, it was our hope that the federal government get involved. On Thursday, our private investigator received a telephone call from one of our key witnesses. That witness was told that his/her story concerning a key piece of evidence must change or else. This witness lives on St. John and, quite obviously, cannot rely on local law enforcement for protection. Our private investigators had this witness' statement and the witness also disclosed the same information to the police. Our investigators did not release the statement so we logically assumed that the police released the information. The information was very specific and not information that could be spread by innuendo or rumor.

With this information concerning threatening a witness, we felt a moral obligation to change plans and immediately turn the entire private investigation report over to federal authorities. We were already working with Senator Specter's office in an attempt to get federal authorities involved. We sent the entire report to Specter's office with a plea that he turn the matter over to federal authorities. Because we fear further witness intimidation, we will not be turning the report over to local authorities. We are confident that Senator Specter will deliver the report to the appropriate authorities.

The following is information from the report that we could release. We have agreed not to identify anyone by name and after the threat described above, we are being very careful not to disclose any information that could inadvertently identify a witness (thus, the he/she above).

Jamie was at the Front Yard bar which is immediately adjacent to the police station. There is a video camera facing the police station but across the street. At the Front Yard, two locals were upset with Jamie and accused him of kicking a girlfriend's car. We are not sure if Jamie knew what they were talking about but Jamie was told to leave. The two locals began to follow Jamie out of the bar and broke pool cues to use as weapons. The two locals were slowed own by a person in the bar for a second but eventually left the bar running after Jamie. The person that attempted to slow down the two locals immediately found a police officer in front of the police station and told that officer that there was going to be a fight. A witness saw one of the locals pick up a two by four. Another witness simultaneously said something like they are hurting the white boy up the street. We don't know how long it took the police
to get there but the officer eventually drove the 150 feet without lights on. One witness estimated that it took the police five minutes to get there. The drive takes fifteen seconds if you are driving the speed limit - 15mph.

The murder happened approximately 150 feet from the police station. The witnesses have identified the two locals that ran after Jamie by their street name. Keep in mind that St. John has a population of a large high school (about 5,000 )and the population is generally broken down 50/50 by locals (West Indian)
and non-locals. The perpetrators are males and relatively young. The point is that the police would obviously know who the perpetrators are -- their options are relatively limited. Our investigators have identified one by his given name.

By all accounts, Jamie was killed within minutes after he left the Front Yard. A witness that saw the altercation described the perpetrator. The perpetrator, not surprisingly, fit the description of one of the two locals that chased Jamie from the Front Yard. That perpetrator ran from Jamie to the passenger seat of a car and left the area.

The witnesses that disclosed this information to the police have specifically stated that they are afraid to be witnesses. One witness called the police (subsequent to the murder) to tell the police that he/she could see a key piece of evidence involved in the murder. (We cannot disclose the specific piece of evidence because it would reveal the witness' identity. This is the same witness that was already threatened.) Not surprisingly, the police stated that they were too busy and could not do anything at that time concerning the critical evidence. Apparently, they couldn't do anything later either because they never followed up. On other occasions, the same witness called the police and no one answered.

All of the key witnesses told our investigators that they were interviewed within approximately three days of the murder. In short, the police had the same information that we now have and have had that information for over a month while murderers run loose on St. John.

Everyone should email any media outlet that they think might be interested in this story. We need to keep the pressure and spotlight on local law enforcement.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 9:05 am
(@ronusvi)
Posts: 1134
Noble Member
 

Well, you all continue on your tack then. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Justice, we have read that over and over. Not new news at all.

RL

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 10:27 am
(@Justice)
Posts: 1
 

Ron,

I did not post the excerpt of the Cockayne e-mail as "news." It was posted in response to recent comments (yours included) defending the work of USVI police. You chose to post an article with a comment from police claiming that they kept the family informed of the investigation. I chose to post a communication from the family stating otherwise.

Whatever communication with the family did or did not happen, I think the evidence at this point suggests that police had the information they needed to make an arrest three days after the murder. They chose to wait until the widening notoriety regarding the crime, the questionable police work and lack of an arrest put the situation under the glare of the media spotlight. But as you said, we are all entitled to our opinions. If you choose to defend the USVI police for their handling of this matter, be my guest.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 12:49 pm
(@NEPOSTER)
Posts: 1
 

I have been a police officer in Philadelphia for 11 years and now work in Bucks County, PA as a police officer. It will take unprecedented, extreme measures to prevent the negative affects of close contacts (on and off duty) police officers have with criminals in the VI. I had vandalism to my home, as a result of arresting people who live very close to me. As a result of their police duties in the VI, the officers face constant threats of retaliation. Unlike myself, there is nowhere further to move, and the immediate access to resources we have in the mainland is almost non-existentthere.

I cannot imagine living only miles from the people I arrest for serious crimes at ALL times in my life. Sadly, all the officers down there could have master's degrees, but without the adequate sense of protection, officers will put their safety, and that of their family first, before having faith criminals will not find them.

If I had to live in North Philly, where I worked in patrol and narcotics for many years, I definitely would have used much more "discretion," knowing I had to go home and raise a family side by side with criminals. Imagine if we carved a small slice out of North Philly, or any high crime neighborhood, for ourselves and made it a vacation paradise. This is essentially what these small islands are, due to their size and local population.

Unfortunately, there are some very bad people living in such a small and poor, although beautiful place.

I love the VI and will continue going there. I don't feel much different down there, than I do living in Philadelphia, which has a massive homicide problem. I'm just being honest..........If I lived in New Hope or Doylestown, or wasn't a police officer, I would probably be less equipped to notice things which I have growing up in a major city, with all its problems.

I am always aware anything can happen at anytime, especially living and growing up in a major city, and my wife and I use our street smarts in the VI and always have a great time.

I hope massive changes can take place down there, just like in Philadelphia, where I still live.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 2:57 pm
(@NEPOSTER)
Posts: 1
 

One thing I would like to add........You never hear many people outside the city DEMANDING change in Philadelphia, while they live closer day to day with 400 plus murders a year than they ever would in the VI. The reason is because they have no interest in ever going to places like North and West Philadelphia for vacation. Because the VI's are something people all over want to enjoy and use for themselves, all of the sudden it's a priority.

Let me tell you, there are some highly UN-qualified police officers in Philadelphia. Some of the officers in the VI might be better qualified. I know because I've worked side by side with them. Where are all the people outside the city contacting news organizations and media outlets about Philly's problems, including CNN (where a special on the Front Yard murder airs tomorrow night)? Now that I work in Bucks County, I hear the views of some of the people who never lived in the city. Some would never travel into the city, and could care less how bad the problems get because it's not their backyard -- hypocritical.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 3:15 pm
(@4check)
Posts: 3
New Member
 

Thank you for a fascinating and informative post with insights I would have never even begun to take into consideration.
I am, of the "why are STJ police so unwilling to live up to their sworn duties?" mindset. But, you have given me reason to
re-evaluate my apparently shortsighted viewpoint. Thanks!

Mark

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 3:23 pm
(@NEPOSTER)
Posts: 1
 

4check,

When I worked for the Philadelphia Police Department, I had to live in the city, due to the residency requirement. Although I still live there, I can now move if I want to because I don't work for the city. So, I know firsthand what's it's like to be confined to an area where you HAVE to work as a cop. There have been numerous houses I have sat on, as a protection detail in Phila, because particular cops and their families were targeted by people that were arrested for violent crimes -- this is in a mainland major city on the east coast! Having to live in an area, as the cops in the VI will always have to, is a recipe for consistent problems. Having no residency requirement will not eliminate the problem of living on a small sland and policing it also.

Also, of my seven times visiting St. John, I would never step foot in the Front Yard, as opposed to somewhere like the Lime Inn, at dinner time in the evening, or the Green House on St Thomas in the afternoon rush. As close as everthing is in Cruz Bay, I see a world of difference from one place as opposed to others. As I have stated, I grew up and worked in the city, so maybe this helps,maybe not, but I see the difference. If I hung at a local bar in a bad neighborhood as a kid (whether it be Kensington or North Philly), with the intent of familiarizing myself with the people there, my parents would be embarassed and find some way to send me the message it is no place to be. This is why a place like the Front Yard always seemed like a place I knew never to be, even in paradise.

As much as I love Woody's, I'll admit, there are some nights, if it's not busy and there are more locals there than tourists, I know to leave, or just not go in and go back to the hotel, etc and enjoy some sleep, the tropical surroundings, or the pool. Everything will still be there the next day.

There are cops "not willing to live up to their duties" everywhere in the U.S. It's just there are more resources to fight crime, and more law abiding people out numbering those who break the law. Thus, there are more powerful forces which keep the crime rate lower in more places. There is more balance of power in the mainland, attributed to the economy, unemployment rate, etc. It's difficult to provide everthing for everybody in such a small place. Up here, we have the space to accomodate all incomes, backgrounds, etc. Not that's it's absolutely perfect, but it's just how it is.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 3:58 pm
(@becky-r)
Posts: 102
Estimable Member
 

Thank you, NEPOSTER - I too was an officer for almost 10 years in Little Rock, which has a HUGE homicide rate - your post is very articulate and well thought out and informative to those who have never lived on the other side of the blue line. Thanks for chiming in. There are bad cops everywhere, and there are good cops everywhere - but to assume that no one was concerned about this homicide or any other is presumptuous. I lived on STX - I know the gov't. jobs go to the locals - but I have to believe you are "called" (for lack of a better word) to be an officer - I want to believe most people wearing the uniform are basically wanting to do what they can to make a difference. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe.

Unfortunately, a lot of people step off that plane and lose their mind - and no, Levin, this has nothing to do with this actual thread or what color anyone is, nor is it an indictment of the young man who was murdered. People go to paradise and they do things they might not do in their hometown because it IS a paradise in your mind. Just don't leave your street smarts behind.

NE, Kudos to you for doing the job you do every day.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 3:58 pm
(@TruthSeeker)
Posts: 1
 

NEPOSTER, I agree.....great posts and very good points.

Here's where we differ, though. While I don't envy the job that the VI cops have to do (under the difficult circumstances you pointed out.) I don't give them a bit of slack in terms of corruption. I can understand them being slow to arrest a local for the reason you mentioned. But when they take 5 minutes to respond to a crime scene that is 15 seconds away, hose down the crime scene before investigators arrive, discard forensic evidence and disregard witnesses who wish to share information about the crime, they are protecting the guilty. There is a big difference between being compromised and being dirty.

I am assuming we will understand the facts of this case better when (if?) it goes to trial. Until then, we have only the competing views of the family, the authorities and the multitude of interested parties who wish to weigh in on the matter. But as for me, I think there's more to the police problem in the VI than the proximity in which they live and operate.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 4:23 pm
(@NEPOSTER)
Posts: 1
 

There is no more to the problem than the proximity in which they live and operate.

Because of the Virgin Islands proximity, there is no credible recruitment base drawing candidates for police officer currently........unless some of the people who own expensive property, etc. will use their education, along with their professional experience, to give up their current standard of living and aid the VIPD on a small island with low pay and coupled with a very high standard of living. Good luck.

This is EXACTLY why Philadelphia and its police department are suffering. Actually, it's even more disgraceful in Philly because they have the ability to drop the residency requirement and recruit highly qualified people from the suburbs. Philadelphia's proximity is not the problem, but the Virgin Islands is.

There are stories I could tell you about members of the Philadelphia Police Department that would rival or surpass any of the VIPD, although there were some very fine officers in Philadelphia I will always look up to. The difference is, most people would not move from outside the city and into it, except for center city and it's neighboring neighborhoods, so most people in Philly suburbs have no idea how bad the city hires and performs on a daily basis.

I respect the Philadelphia Police Department for all the experience it has given me. However, there are many people there that are compromised and dirty, like associating with known felons. Or, the 15th police district in the city's northeast section,....talk about response time, it's not uncommon for them to be 60, 70 calls or more in the hole on a busy night.

Again, like Becky stated, there are things police officers see the public never does. Many times, when we try to communicate this with the public, some people just think it isn't possible, but oh it is.

I'm not making an excuse for the VIPD. In a capitalist society, which affords middle class people like myself to visit and enjoy the Virgin Islands, it's hard to maintain such a disparity in classes in such a small space without some problems.

Because the islands are small, there is no wealth of industry, other than tourism. Nothing else makes the Virgin Islands money. To make the VIPD what everyone wants it to be, meaning attracting qualified people and being organized, professional, efficient, ethical, with high importance on thorough investigations and service to the public, that means pay would have to be increased, and money would have to be dumped into reorganizing the deparment to perform.

And where do you get this money, TAXES, more taxes on EVERYTHING you can think of. Then, would people revert back to buying in Florida or some other island for example. Unfortunately, there are not enough wealthy people to raise taxes on compared everyone else, so it will have to be spread across the board, to the poorer people which can't afford to pay more probably.

It doesn't matter to me who gets hit, because that' only fair, but places like St John Spice and The Lime Inn, which are institutions, may pack up and go home.

Lets' be honest, VI really is a remote place. It just doesn't seem like it because most of go for a few weeks, have access to modern conveniences, but don't have to live there day to day with limited infrastructure.

I always wanted to go to Bermuda, but it's actually cheaper to go to St. John overall, which I hear is more beautiful anyway. I am perfectly happy going to St. John and St. Thomas, and using common sense to have a great time.

All I'm saying is, things might improve, but I wouldn't expect it to dramatically. Each of us have to make a decision to vacation there, and compromise. If I want to enjoy such a remote, beautiful place, you can't expect it not to be one.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 5:15 pm
(@promoguy)
Posts: 630
Honorable Member
 

Interesting comments to say the least. My son who has 14 years on the job in Los Angeles is very happy not to live in the city but in the suburbs. Ever wonder why Simi Valley and Santa Clarita are the safest two cities in the area. That's where most of the cops live. Sure there are some that live in the sprawling out (better) parts of the city. No cop wants to go to his local supermarket and stand in line behind the guy he may have just arrested a couple of days earlier.

So I do have to agree that proximity is a great part of the problem. I remember a few years back watching a drug bust go down and the cop making the arrest calling out, okay Stevie now lets just relax. Doubt there would be calling out the names if proximity wasn't a problem.

Not sure this problem will ever be solved or if there really is a solution given the size of each island.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 5:53 pm
(@dreamconch)
Posts: 396
Reputable Member
 

What's the alternative then?
In a small place the community has to come together to make it happen. I would be
horrified living and knowing there are people loose capable of killing someone in such a horrific manner on
the island the size of St. John.
The job falls to all if there is to be a working system. Draw the line in the sand, and stick to your guns. Everybody
is accountable.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 6:41 pm
(@promoguy)
Posts: 630
Honorable Member
 

Hey dreamconch, did you ever consider that there is no murder rampage on STJ. Didn't Blu mention like a total of three or five since 2000.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 6:54 pm
(@CShell)
Posts: 1
 

In the Source's forum, there is a letter in response to "Where's the Cops" and addresses the upcoming Cadet class for St. Thomas/St. John discussing recruitment of police.
.
http://www.onepaper.com/stthomasvi/?v=d&i=&s=Commentary:Open+Forum&p=1176614013
recently the Atlanta Police Department tested 3,000 applicants. They ended up with 204 potential recruits -- .068 percent. The Virgin Islands Police Department, through the Office of Personnel, tested 280 applicants. They ended up with 14 potential recruits -- .05 percent. As anyone can see, the .018 difference is negligible in the testing results between Atlanta (and their surrounding counties) and the Virgin Islands .

I wonder what the starting salary is - not much, I suspect. And we know what the cost of living is there. How about those folks who've lived on the island, maybe for generations, who are being taxed off the island. You see it here on the Jersey Shore - the multimillion dollar houses are driving property rates up so that seniors or even middle class can't afford it anymore.

To dreamconch who woud be horrified to find someone CAPABLE of killing another on the same island as small as St. John, hope she posts so we can all go live there. Random crime happens ... Even in the small town in Hanover, NH, home to Dartmouth College (of Ivy fame) two professors, one a friend of mine, were brutally murdered by two high school kids - one the president of his class - for absolutely no reason other than the "thrill" to see what it was like. No place is immune - unless you want to live in a gated community, have guards at the gate and never leave.
Sometimes I think folks on vacation think those living in Paradise, don't have the exact same problems that we have in our own communities - that their perfect life is beach, sun and fun all the time.

 
Posted : August 5, 2007 7:26 pm
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